... Seems absolutely impossible.

Incoming vent post, whiny but I honestly would like you guys' opinion:

So how is it possible to make money, or at least move up stakes, when you start at micros? I doubt skills are enough at this point. I've reached 10k hands and could only make a ridiculous 7$ profit, for about 30 hours (I 4 table so I'm guessing I've put about 30hrs in the last 2 weeks and a half). From slowplaying every single AA to calling 5xBB to 10xBB preflop raises with any 2 cards (literally get instacalled by 53o, K4o, 28s by most players on these limits), the players at these limits are absolutely unreadable. There are no patterns, they don't fold, regardless of how badly theyre dominated, which should spell profit for me, but still catch on the river (on 10k hands, not just the last 200). How do you make money if you can't put people on a hand, or assign them a range? How is it possible that my EV adjusted is somewhere around 45$ at this point, that I put efforts and countless hours and still get crushed by the first dumbass "OMG, MY CARDS ARE THE SAME COLOR, IM ALLLL-INNNNN"

Edit: While I type this, some fucking idiot pushes all-in with QJ after I raised in position with AA, I call, he shows QhJh, obviously the board is 4 hearts. Another 5$ gone.

So, 10k hands, 3$ profit, EV adj profit 52$.
Fuck micros. This is so retarded. I put so much time over the past months, playing this goddamn game for hours and hours, everytime it's the same "stick to BRM, put hands in, it's just variance" bs but the bottom line is, looks like being a winning player on micros is totally random and not skill related. You might hit a sick heater and make something out of it, but if you don't run like jesus you play against such loose players that I don't see myself making it out of micros for 6 months to a year...

So apparently my only way to make it will be working my ass off IRL and dumping 1,000$ on my BR so I can skip the mental retards on NL2 and NL4.

*Whine post is whiny*

Última edição por fcnz 18 May 2009 às 14:47 CET

QUOTE(fcnz):

the players at these limits are absolutely unreadable. There are no patterns

Wrong, there might not be a general pattern which holds true from player to player, but if you watch a player closely he'll probably be playing consistently.

Just play normally but take things with a pinch of salt because as you've pointed out, they could have any two cards. This includes calling when you've got something and suspect they're bluffing and folding when you think they've got something. I'm not the best player and I know there's alot I can improve on, but i'd put in alot of hands at these limits...

If you look at my blog, those 5.5k hands were all played at NL5, admittedly I had a nice heater for my first 1k~ hands but that's largely irrelevant. You should stop watching your $ line and start watching your $EV line.

Última edição por Alex 18 May 2009 às 15:16 CET

QUOTE(Alex):

Wrong, there might not be a general pattern which holds true from player to player, but if you watch a player closely he'll probably be playing consistently.
Just play normally but take things with a pinch of salt because as you've pointed out, they could have any two cards.
If you look at my blog, those 5.5k hands were all played at NL5, admittedly I had a nice heater for my first 1k~ hands but that's largely irrelevant. You should stop watching your $ line and start watching your $EV line.

My $EV line won't pay buy-in for higher limits though. That's like Hellmuth saying if it wasn't for luck he'd win every hand =)

Also, my graph looks nothing like yours, I've went up to a maximum of about 25$ profit in those 10k hands, mostly I'm just staying even which is retarded. I feel like I'm wasting my time and I should spend this time doing something else. I love poker to death but I wish it would be someone else turn to run horrible for once. I won't lie I cherish the idea of living off of poker some day and each one of those beats seems to take me farther away from that goal I've been working on for quite some time. I've read the books, I've learned alot and am willing to learn alot more, I've cashed on MTTs and proved I could be a winning player at higher limits, yet I simply can't build a BR due to the worst luck possible in the past 18 months or so.

Example: Just today, lost set of tens vs pocket ace, all-in on the flop, ace on the river. KK vs JJ, money goes in preflop, J on the turn. AA preflop raise 5xBB gets called by the big blind with 54o, board makes him a set and we stack off... KK preflop raise 5xBB (I've been 5xBB from early position with KK/AA to try and fold those drawing donks), get called by ... get ready .... K4o. Yes, K4o. Guess what? Thats right, a runner runner flush. I get AcAs on the button, cutoff raises 4xBB, I reraise 3x, he goes all-in, I snapcall and he shows QhJh, board brings 4 hearts. Now, I realize that statistically speaking, this is badluck and if I always keep playing the same, it should even out. BUT, theres no saying when it will. I could run bad like this for another 10 years ... I know it's unprobable, but it COULD theoritically happen, just like this year-long downswing I've apparently been on. Granted some of it is sloppy play, with my calibur, I should still be crushing those limits. The leaks I do have would be an issue if I played NL50 or NL100, not NL2.

Última edição por fcnz 18 May 2009 às 15:24 CET

And to top it all off, I don't have money for an HEM liscence so figuring out patterns is alot harder, I might have to go down to 2-tabling so I can pay better attention to each player... Hope I won't have too though. I was hoping to buy a liscence on propaganda but I can't take a $40 cut to my $70~ish BR right now.

If you dont have a hud here is what you need to figure out and play by it. Three characteristics. Is someone tight or loose, is someone agressive or passive, is someone weak or strong( aka does he fold all the time or is callingstation).
Lets look at some combinations:

The loose passive callingstation fish: (looose, passive,strong)
You beat this player by valuebetting relentlesly even with not the strongest holding. Give raises and bets of these players alot of respect, because since they are passive, when they show agression they have super strong ranges. Dont stack off against a raise without a monster and dont check call bets, either bet yourself or check/fold.

The loose passive weak fish. (loose,passive,weak)
Not so often found, like the callingstation type. You want to iso these guys with a wide range and cbet relentlessly + if the board gets scary you always want to represent it and bluff them out the pot. Be careful with your medium strength hands since their calling ranges are strong ( but still kinda weak since they are so loose). Again check/call is not advised since they are passive and raises mean monsters almoast always.

The weak tight regular: (tight,agressive,weak)
You wont tangle with these guys too much, since they will probably only call you with PPs and 3bet a tight range, so if you get called cbet flops that are good to fold out PPs and be careful on turn and river once called. 3betting them light on Co and button should be profitable, because they fold alot of their range. When you call them attack their cbets alot.

The strong tight regular.(tight,agressive,strong)
These guys are often paranoid and will not fold to turn bets or 3bets if they have anything. Dont try to float them too often but, be sure to get paid if you have a made hand and they check it to you on the turn.
Also dont be too afraid to 3bet them, since they moastly will have to give up to your cbet, because their range is so wide.

LAGtards.(loose,agressive,strong)
Guys who open 1/3 of hands and fire multiple barrels frequently+ try to make a play against you often. Against these guys you want to do anything to show weakness. Their betting ranges are gonna be super wide and contain alot of bluffs. For example check the turn after you cbet with a made hand, or make a weak looking checkraise against their cbet and then check the turn to induce bets. Dont try to bluff these guys because they will freqently rebluff you and not fold any pair. Dont fold TP ever to them, even if they fire 3 barrels.

Nit. (very tight)
Nits are super tight. Just steals their blinds alot. There is nothing much more you can do to squeeze money out of them.

Just differentiate by these criteria and look for specific pattern/tendencies people might have. This way you should be able to play even without a hud.

Última edição por ytricky 18 May 2009 às 16:30 CET

The chance of your (95% win - 5% loss) bad beats which you are losing continuing for another ten years will be a % far lower than 1%...

If you love poker to death treat it like a hobby which you get enjoyment from not a job which you get money from. Accept that you are paying to play a hobbie which you love, ontop of this sometimes you get money FROM it, which is a bonus.

Download PT3 trial (60 days) whilst you wait for your BR to accomodate a HEM purchase.

And no your $EV line won't pay for buy-ins to higher limits but it should stop you quitting because you've had some bad beats.

Everyone has downswings, just look forward to your upswing which will feel even sweeter due to your downswing. Concentrate on not changing the way you play because of this bad luck.

QUOTE(fcnz):

So apparently my only way to make it will be working my ass off IRL and dumping 1,000$ on my BR so I can skip the mental retards on NL2 and NL4.
*Whine post is whiny*

You need to learn how to really beat up and abuse the fishy retards. If you can't make any money sitting @ a table with 4-5 fish, how will you survive @ a higher limit table with 1-2 fish and 3-4 regulars. Yes you can make some money off the bad regulars but most of your winnings should be from those loose passive fish who call way too much.

I understand the frustration but 10k hands isnt that big of a samplesize (although semidecent) and you are just on a downswing even though you actually have profited. Your game is probably not perfect but should be enough to keep a high winrate for the given microstakes. Playing these stakes gives you valuable expirience which will help you when you move up by having a basic fundament of poker strategy to rely on. You can get HEM as a 15 day trial also so dont worry about that and just try not to get affeected by the retards and just play your hands and not the players.

QUOTE(Kalle):

You can get HEM as a 15 day trial also so dont worry about that and just try not to get affeected by the retards and just play your hands and not the players.

Already did but it's over now :(

pt3 60 day trial?